Some recommendations for MP

Tips, tactics, and general discussion for Evochron Legacy.
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RavenFellBlade
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by RavenFellBlade »

I was flying on Darkstar last night, building a station, when Oblivion Wolf stopped by to show me a neat trick. If you use a deployable bubble, the station is completely unable to defend itself from a player. The AI ships will fly around helplessly trying to kill a player while the station fires missiles that do nothing. So, here's my proposition:
1) Make the AI ships capable of scuttling deployables. This way, a player has to at least keep tabs on AI ships to make sure they aren't scuttling their deployable shield.
2) Make a new Build Constructor item called a Restrictor Module. It's purpose would be to establish a zone wherein no deployables can be used. It's range should be comparable to shield modules. To make it relatively fair, the Restrictor Module should be a costly investment, nearly as much as a Command Module, say 150-200 ore.
In this way, players will have to destroy the Restrictor Module to take advantage of Shield deploys, and even once they are deployed, still have to manage AI fighters to prevent them scuttling the shield. This would also work as a double-edged sword in that they are a costly investment, and would prevent the station owner/faction from placing friendly deployables like Mining deploys if the station is too close to the target asteroid field.
I think this could add a bit more depth to station building, and make stations feel a bit more robust and less disposable. It shouldn't be impossible to destroy one, but a well-built and designed one should take more effort than just hiding in a shield deploy and spamming missiles. Right now, station killing is still kinda "easy mode". Hopefully, these suggestions can help sort that, and make them a fun challenge both to build effectively, and to destroy.
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by Vice »

No need to incorporate AI scuttling (other negatives for that route anyway) nor use up additional equipment hardpoints. If this (single point shield deployable) is a problem for players and enough want it changed, then the more effective solution would probably be to just block such a deployable from being within a certain range of a module.
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Marvin
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by Marvin »

What some players consider a tactic, others consider an exploit. To me it seems more "Achilles' heels" are being called exploits ... and consequently we are running out of tactics.
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by MiaZ »

From post: 186523, Topic: tid=12530, author=RavenFellBlade wrote:I was flying on Darkstar last night, building a station, when Oblivion Wolf stopped by to show me a neat trick. If you use a deployable bubble, the station is completely unable to defend itself from a player. The AI ships will fly around helplessly trying to kill a player while the station fires missiles that do nothing. So, here's my proposition:
1) Make the AI ships capable of scuttling deployables. This way, a player has to at least keep tabs on AI ships to make sure they aren't scuttling their deployable shield.
2) Make a new Build Constructor item called a Restrictor Module. It's purpose would be to establish a zone wherein no deployables can be used. It's range should be comparable to shield modules. To make it relatively fair, the Restrictor Module should be a costly investment, nearly as much as a Command Module, say 150-200 ore.
In this way, players will have to destroy the Restrictor Module to take advantage of Shield deploys, and even once they are deployed, still have to manage AI fighters to prevent them scuttling the shield. This would also work as a double-edged sword in that they are a costly investment, and would prevent the station owner/faction from placing friendly deployables like Mining deploys if the station is too close to the target asteroid field.
I think this could add a bit more depth to station building, and make stations feel a bit more robust and less disposable. It shouldn't be impossible to destroy one, but a well-built and designed one should take more effort than just hiding in a shield deploy and spamming missiles. Right now, station killing is still kinda "easy mode". Hopefully, these suggestions can help sort that, and make them a fun challenge both to build effectively, and to destroy.
I thought you could not fire your weapons inside a shield bubble.
Anyway big stations are not easy mode" any more. The amount of missiles is enough to have to run back to safe system to buy after every 1 or 2 shield modules.
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by CS-ACI- »

Hello,
From post: 186527, Topic: tid=12530, author=Marvin wrote:What some players consider a tactic, others consider an exploit. To me it seems more "Achilles' heels" are being called exploits ... and consequently we are running out of tactics.
I have been pondering this, and how to define the difference between an exploit and a tactic.

If this was real, an exploit is something that you could not do. An example being using respawn to destroy a station. By this I mean firing 8 Exodus and then you die, respawn, instant reload at no cost.

A tactic is using a intended or unintended flaw/design in the game. An example of this would be stacking shields to stop easy destruction.

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Post by Marvin »

:cool: A very good definition, CS. ;)
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Post by Vice »

Another factor might be the level of protection designed in the station. At most, you might be able to block one or two weapon turrets (and no more because you'd have to scuttle a deployed shield before you could place another), leaving the rest to defend if they are properly placed. But it's certainly easy enough to block building one closer than say, 3000, to a module to prevent direct obstruction.
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RavenFellBlade
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by RavenFellBlade »

I think the merit in my idea is that it leaves the "Achille's heel" tactic as still valid for a few reasons.
Firstly, not everyone is going to invest in the time to mine an extra 200 ore to build a single module, so there will always be some stations built without a Restrictor in place.
Secondly, the Restrictor can still be destroyed itself, which just means that you'd need a bit more tactical know-how to take it out before you can settle into Shield-Turtle mode.
Thirdly, some folks will forego using the module as a matter of not wanting to interfere with their own deployables. The Restrictor would add a cost/benefit factor to anyone designing a station, and depending on that station's purpose, it may not be in the builder's best interest to utilize it.
If you made a blanket "no deployable zone" around modules ad-hoc, it would "fix" the "problem", but it would introduce new ones by universally restricting mining and sensor deploys near stations. It seems to me that my solution does nothing more than add some player choice to the mix. Then again, I have no idea of how difficult this would be to code. It seems like it IS possible for you to create an exclusion zone around modules, so I would imagine tying that exclusion zone to a SPECIFIC module shouldn't be that much of a stretch. It's just my $0.02.
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Post by Vice »

If you made a blanket "no deployable zone" around modules ad-hoc, it would "fix" the "problem", but it would introduce new ones by universally restricting mining and sensor deploys near stations.
It would not with the design I was considering. The restriction would only be for deployable shield arrays, the change would not affect mining probes or sensor arrays.
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by RavenFellBlade »

Hey, never hurts to bounce ideas off of you, right? I appreciate you taking the time to consider the suggestion!
I guess what I was suggesting with that comment was that, as a gameplay balance and player-driver thing, having a module that is a blanket restriction would just add a different angle for builder to take into consideration. Added security at a higher investment in resources and the potential inconvenience of blocking "friendly" deploys, or leave it out and hope that your other defenses are sufficient? I like the idea of having a module or two for building that are distinct in having a trade-off, and in general feel that an extra option or two can make for enhancing the depth of the building experience. Maybe put it up as a poll if other players would be interested in such an addition?
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Post by Vice »

Indeed, never hurts to bounce ideas around. Expanding module types might be an option in the future, depending on time/resources. In the meantime, it probably wouldn't hurt to at least put some kind of placement restriction on shield deployables to keep them a bit farther away from modules to prevent 'capping' them entirely.
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Some recommendations for MP

Post by Oblivion Wolf »

I would just like to specify I was not trying to be cute or show off a trick. I was literally testing if the shield deployable would work, and your station was the only one I could find Raven :P
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