[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Custom mods, stories, and artwork based on the Evochron / Arvoch universe.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Daedalus »

Hi everyone. Long time no see. 4 years ago I wanted to modelize some basics models for mercenary but I didnt have the experience to do so. Now

that I'm more experienced with several 3D modeling tool, I wanted to update my old work and finally export it to Legacy.

So, with a limit of 15000 poly (or less if I clean this nicely), I present you the first capital ship on the work: The command ship.

I finished the base mesh, beginning the high poly baking and texturing:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Dont know wich capital ship it will replace but I will figure it out
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Brian Paone »

That is NICE!
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by matchbox2022 »

daymn. thats a download.
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Post by Marvin »

Outstanding. I'd just call it Cap Ship 1 or something. Most players who use it will probably decide which default ship it will replace.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Outstanding, I'd love to help if you need it, just tell how to convert them into legacy format and I'll happily take care of all the converting so you can just spend your time doing the mesh and things, I have expirence with 3DSmax and I can create specular an d normal maps easy enough.

Anywya I'd love to help if I can, looking forward to these ships, wondering if after this project you want to help with military and civilian hull replacements.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Daedalus »

Thanks Misunderstood Wookie, Ive a lot of work before importing that but be sure I'll check with you if I dont have the time to import this mesh.

I have some questions about the textures: Can it accept textures with alpha blending? I have to bake some of my parts into textures with alpha, but I dont know If it will do it in game.

Also I work a lot with Substance designer, but the material properties are quite different than in the game, is there a way to convert all this in evochron?
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Vice »

The game uses 4 layer multi-texturing with its shader system and by so doing, internally takes care of normal mapping, specular, and emissive based on the maps you import. Alpha isn't one of the channels that will likely be applied in one or more of the maps, so you'll need to apply anything you want over another layer in the texture image itself, whether base, normal, specular, or emissive.

I'm not familiar with Substance, so I don't know what would be involved in converting. I can say that you will need base, normal, specular, and emissive textures. Base, specular, and emissive should be pretty self-explanatory and applicable from the base image you design. For normal mapping, a plugin in Nvidia's normal map generator might come in handy as it lets you generate a normal map from a base/grayscale map.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

The game textures work on greyscale but it also works with RGB just whatever is tinted will remain that colou. so your work has to have a black layer and you design the rest in white on another layer is usually the best method. Normal maps and specular I can make for you mate i use mindtex on steam you should be able to import normals and specular np the stuff I need to lean is how to export everything so legacy can use it in game and bake it for the game.

[Edited on 2/5/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Zenith »

Quite a model indeed. Well done!
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Right well I figured out what to do lol.

The game appears to use directX model format ". X" I can't believe how long it's taken to figure that out.. :(

I only realised when I was checking out vices pinned software he uses and saw X format on his modeling suit. Sigh.. Anyway now I know it can be exported and imported with basically any modeling program.


Ship textures technically be exported as compressed. DDS

I'm not familiar with substance either but I believe it uses a similar node connection system like any other modern engine these days (.e.g. UDK or Cryengine or 2014 & later versions of Autodesk 3DSmax material lib)

Importing into legacy is pretty much simple as making a model, export to directX format. Create cockpit or use global one in mod kit same export process.

Create your required textures, create your required text files for thruster placement and name the hull and or cockpit to override an existing ship.

Use the ship tool in the customisation kit view it all looks fine. Copy your new ship into your games "ship" folder. Repeat process for each ship ID you want to replace :).


The templates for everything are in the customisation kit under the ships folder.


Sorry about spelling typed on mobile.

(edit)

I do suggest you open the existing ship hull template to check for any required material maps applied so you know what to name your material maps in your model to get the colours to work


[Edited on 2/7/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Bodega »

Hey Wookie,
There is a good DDS plugin and a normalmap plugin for Gimp. Also, Blender can bake normal maps. You're looking at the mod kit right? I assume so, but yeah, it goes into the .x format there. Here's some more tips from Vice himself:
For DDS compression, I generally use DXT5, which is good for solid detail and minimal loss. I wouldn’t generally recommend the others unless you find an advantage with them. The game’s graphics system should be able to handle any of the major DXT compression formats, but 5 is what I’d recommend.

Correct, you only need to supply the texture maps. You don’t need to worry about the HLSL shader coding or application of shader code. The game takes care of all of the shader work internally. But you do need to supply each of the 4 texture layers.

From the mod kit:
ccpit#.x = base cockpit structure mesh (include textures in the same folder)
ccpit#displays.x = cockpit displays (the frames/screens that project the holographic display details)
ccpit#glass.x = cockpit glass surface (rendered transparent and reactive to scene lighting)


There are also these texture files:

ccpit#-[detail].dds = Base texture map
ccpit#normal-[detail].png = Normal map
ccpit#shader-[detail].dds = Specular map
ccpit#lights-[detail].dds = Emissive map
ccpit#glass-[detail].dds = Glass texture


Also, and the real reason I came here was to tell you this, you asked about which weapons sounds are which, I think they go in order in how they appear in the shipyard? From Vice:




1 = "Banshee Cannon"
2 = "Phantom Cannon"
3 = "Atlas Cannon"
4 = "Trebuchet Cannon"
5 = "Predator Cannon"
6 = "Razor Cannon"
7 = "Sunrail Cannon"
8 = "Maxim-R Cannon"
9 = "Starforge Cannon"
10 = "Eclipse Cannon"
11 = "Stalker Cannon"
12 = "Starguard Cannon"
13 = "Firefury Cannon"
14 = "Icespear Cannon"
15 = "Flarebeam Cannon"


To replace the default civilian ship frames, use a directory name of \\ships and use the following filenames:

frameX.x = Ship model, X is number slot from 0 to 9 (Talon to Leviathan) and 40-49 (Arrow to Starmaster)

I used to be really good with 3DSMax back 10 years ago when I "got software for free" but I don't do that anymore so I'm sticking with Blender and Gimp. Blender is actually really nice, I've been messing with it all weekend. Haven't even played any games because I've been addicted to material nodes, baking and fluid simulations.

I've got a few ideas I can hopefully bring to fruition. Can't wait to try your mod when it's finished. I've tried the HUD WIP and it's nice. Keep up the good work.



[Edited on 2-8-2016 by Bodega]
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

From post: 184784, Topic: tid=12363, author=Bodega wrote:Hey Wookie.......
Thanks for this information.
I had a chat with Vice and he actually gave me the template images he used for the diffuse maps as I can take care the normals,etc myself in MindTex which is a program specific for creation of all of those things, the tool is amazing I would recommend it to anybody who does 3D work. You import a diffuse image be .dds or whatever it will automatically generate what ever maps you tick to generate and you have some customization options you can play with here you then save the project for later and use the projects settings to batch export a whole bunch using different diffuses. The program works in real-time and you can import models or use the generic built in shapes to test the textures as you work on them. Another great feature of this software is the ability to also export .DDS and fix seams.


Vice also gave the me gun info but thanks for the heads up here, I was going to ask about the ship ID's but now I don't need too. I actually self update the mod kit html page locally if you are interested as I just add information where it is relevant for it.

Speaking of modeling though. I found this http://www.scenerydesign.org/modelconverterx/
Seems the best thing I can find to convert .X into something more useful that any other 3D suit can open I believe it even can change a .obj back into .X however I already found a plug-in called "X-Porter" for 3ds Max 2014 which can export .X (Direct3D) straight out of Max. Blender also can export it but I prefer to use Max.

The software I have here myself are "Autodesk Entertainment Creative Suit 2014, Maya,Mudbox,3DSMax, all the other stuff like softimage), "Photoshop CC 2015", "Blender" ,"MindTex"

For editing the ini files and code I use Sublime Text 3

Thank you again for the input as I did need to know which order things went in for what model now I know so I will add the information to the Mod Kit.

[Edited on 2/8/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Bodega »

From post: 184788, Topic: tid=12363, author=Misunderstood Wookie wrote:
From post: 184784, Topic: tid=12363, author=Bodega wrote:Hey Wookie.......
Speaking of modeling though. I found this http://www.scenerydesign.org/modelconverterx/
Seems the best thing I can find to convert .X into something more useful that any other 3D suit can open I believe it even can change a .obj back into .X however I already found a plug-in called "X-Porter" for 3ds Max 2014 which can export .X (Direct3D) straight out of Max. Blender also can export it but I prefer to use Max.

The software I have here myself are "Autodesk Entertainment Creative Suit 2014, Maya,Mudbox,3DSMax, all the other stuff like softimage), "Photoshop CC 2015", "Blender" ,"MindTex"

For editing the ini files and code I use Sublime Text 3

Thank you again for the input as I did need to know which order things went in for what model now I know so I will add the information to the Mod Kit.

[Edited on 2/8/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
Yeah, findong the converters was the toughest part.

You must do graphic design / modeling for a living? or just an expensive hobby. I used to use Max, Maya, PS, Nendo for organic modeling. I really wish I could afford Max. It would be overkill for anything I'd do now, which is just a hobby, but I used Max for so many years that it's the software I know best. I'm learning Blender though. I have a lot of the foundation knowledge, I just have to get used to a different workflow.

Yeah, baking normals I'm doing right in Blender. I've got a normalmap plugin for Gimp, which seems to work well, I just have to play with it a bit more. I found a tool, that is free (http://www.open3mod.com/) and is supposed to import/export any format, make sure you 1.1, the installer because the standalone portable one is 1.0 and crashes a lot. 1.1 works well for importing/exporting any format. I'll check out the model converter you posted.

Thanks!

[Edited on 2-8-2016 by Bodega]
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Post by Bodega »

Bought MindTex, it's on sale. Really Really cool for $11.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

I told ya it was freaking awesome :) it takes nearly all of the hassle out of multiple maps and lets you export clean maps which you can choose to manually adjust in your fav editor or use as is.

I tested the ModelConverterX and I gotta say its free and it does exactly what was needed, it imports .X and exports out into many common formats even native .3DS in my case. It also handles previewing the texture maps and lighting conditions.

I wouldn't really say the hobby was expensive I actually just had a friend who owns them let me use one of his licences for them. Though I do have a few of my own licences from my school days when the software was available to students however for older versions of the products.

I had a chat to vice again about some crazy theory I had to design a ship or edit an existing one cutting out the guts of it to make way for a hanger... Vice says it is possible to make a hanger bay by leaving a cut out however there is no system in place to tie your ship to the other one so what you will end up with is a ship bouncing around inside another ship but I think hey if you can fly good enough you should be able to fly slow enough to maintain a matched speed and not blow yourself up.



I talked to vice about the possibility of getting capitals with docking hangers for fleet transport in mp I guess time will tell if that happens. I also asked if he had any thoughts on flyable capital ships or battle cruisers no word yet but fingers crossed we get to fly one.

If all else fails I can convert top tier military ships into capital size ships wink wink.







So this is the example ship from the Modding Kit imported into Max I cut a nice hole out and I could easily deck the inside out.
[img=512x512]http://puu.sh/n0mjK/03718728ff.png[/img]

(Side note: I am not sure if Vice optimized his models or not or if the example was not optimized but I ran max's optimize modifier over this model and it cut back about 900+ faces and some 1000+ vertices.
Personally its best practice to optimize every model as it saves gpu work.



[Edited on 2/8/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Bodega »

The capital ship discussion has been brought up often. I know I would support them but in order for them to be added Vice would need to figure out a way they could be added to the scope of the game that fits with the overall vision. They wouldn't be dockable, so maybe Vice would have to add a new capital ship dock build module. That may help them remain rare. Maybe there are only a couple docks in the galaxy. And they'd be very expensive to build, the only way to build a dock is to already own a cap ship because you'd need like 2500 metal. The capital ship dock is the only place with the couplers to refuel the ship (the regular command module couplers would refuel the massive fuel tanks so slow it would take 1 year to fill). And the repair crew and machinery, again, can only be at the cap ship docks. I dunno, I think it'll be really neat. You could have 2-3 friends in multiplayer link to your turrets, maybe have them fly into the bay and form up that way. I don't know, the sky's the limit, it would be a lot of work though for Vice.


I plan on doing some hi-res meshes and then baking the normal, bump maps and putting them over low-poly models. And of course that depends on if I model anything I like. I just need to find some time to actually do some of this. I literally spent all weekend just messing about learning Blender, but I did some really really cool stuff.

MindTex is awesome, like you said, so easy, and it's all the mapping in one place. If I do a mesh I'll back the normal, bump map in blender, but use Mindtex for any of texture displacement maps. Good recommendation and it was on sale too because of the Steam sale.
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Post by Bodega »

And that openmod mesh converter 1.1 is crashing on export now too. Not sure why, I'm checking out the converter Wookie posted.

Edit: I've tried it, and though it seems to be for FlightSimX it works very well for meshes. I've exported to both .3ds and .obj and was able to import into Blender easily.

The OpenMod converter worked fine once this morning and then just crashed each time I tried to export after that.

[Edited on 2-8-2016 by Bodega]
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Yea that is generally what I would do, I usually have three meshes low, med, high. When I used to make characters and weapons in Mudbox (which btw is freaking amazing as you essentially draw and sculpt everything its wicked for characters and creatures) Mudbox already takes care of the mesh quality using layers. It adds polycount up to about 10x the original, you start off sculpting the basic feature lines then go up a poly level work on fine muscle lines, up another level work out the details up another levelt extra. Best part is you can do all these changes in layers quite similar to photoshop so at any point you think maybe I need to go over this more, you can just untick the other layers and work on just that one layer.

Maybe you made deeper cuts than you wanted and just need to make them a little less rough, easy done just turn down the strength on the layer. The program also supports an exceptionally good texture painter and blending method it's literally like drawing in photoshop literally. (http://www.autodesk.com/products/mudbox/overview) if you ever google Mudbox images you will certainly be curious, but yea I usually export absolutely everything into mudbox at some point when it comes to characters or plants rocks anything which is not using geometric shapes to build.

I will see how ships go in there at one point, Like I would probably make my med poly model in Max without any surface details like vents or cuts just the basic box shape I wanted to go with, export that into Mudbox and sculpt the detail work in and use the mudbox version for the normals and everything else.


I am quite familiar with engines using different levels of mesh quality (LOD) Personally the ships in this game however could use more details, what I was thinking about doing was making ships with cockpits you could SEE into. I know there are no hangar bays yet either but I could still create a fake hanger with common military ships in it scaled down so it looks like they are docked.

Possibilities are pretty endless here, I know my computer can handle high poly games the question is will the engine represent the detail good enough to be worth it. The shaders in this game are pretty basic they could use a little love but I worked around it using ReShade and ENB Wrapper.

The problem I am going to run into here is in the GRAND SCALE of things, If try and increase the detail too much everything else in the game will like poor quality and the only thing standing out will be the textures and everything else I can't change.

I would literally need to re do all the station modules textures if I go and replace all the ships with more poly count and inner details. So for the sake of the experience I was going to just change one or two of the capital ships and double work on better baked textures for the rest.


Just it's hard because we don't have the original work so I can't bake NEW normals for the rest of the ships I can only change the textures for the ships, cockpit on the other hand I can do and that is an area I will do. I was thinking about using different cockpits per ship but then that's a lot of work and I would need to edit the gauges for each ship so the displays line up where I want them, So I was thinking of just improving a global cockpit until somebody helps me out.


[Edited on 2/8/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Bodega »

You got ENB wrapper to work? It kept crashing for me. ReShade worked fine. Yeah, it is a lot of work. I was thinking of making all new models for the ships, destroyers, but it's going to be a slow process of doing it in my free time.

So yeah, what version of ENB wrapper did you use? Mine crashed on startup, well wouldn't even start.

Mudbox sounds like zBrush or Nendo.

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by Bodega]
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

I have not tired but I will, personally I don't see what the difference is between Reshade which is sweetFX 3.+ vs ENBInjector they do the same thing...
Except Sweet FX is just a lot better and has a shit ton more options.
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Post by Bodega »

Please let me know if you get it working, I honestly didn't try very hard. Got Reshade + SweetFX working, fiddled with it and removed it because I didn't see too much benefit. I just messed about with the AA, bloom and fake AO stuff. I used the latest ENB generic and the game wouldn't start. The game doesn't seem to like the Discord (www.discordapp) voice chat overlay either. It wouldn't start if I enabled it beforehand and would crash EL if I enabled it while it was running.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

I can tell you for a fact that Reshade is better than ENB, I tried ENB Wrapper & ENB Injector, The wrapper game won't start, Injector game starts but the injector does not inject the .dll I correctly the set the injection tool up too so beats me..

Let me say something though, Reshade on its own without preset and without any shader plugins is the same as SweetFX2.0 except it runs on anything! I used the Master Effects Package which replaces the default shaders and adds a lot of new techniques that don't come with ReShade or SweetFX. Sorry if I am missing something but I just can't warp my head around the obsession with ENB over this method. ENB requires presets to even do anything and it also requires game specific .dlls in order for it actually improve anything properly.

Like the ENB shaders for Skyrim or GTA5 these are purpose built shader dlls which hook into the game correctly and knows extra information about the game engine that is what allows AO and other things to integrate so well. Using ENB on this game will only give you basic color correction and tone maps and simple AA options.

No different than what your issue is with Reshade. This game is simply not compatible with most overlay dlls. I just want to point out that a shader injector's job is the same as any other it just depends on which one works for what game and what effects you need from it.

Nothing personal so don't take offence just I spent a long time on my presets to get reasonable results. You can't expect the injector to do magic if you don't spend the time to figure out what works best for your game.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Daedalus »

Sorry for the lack of information, I have to work on some others projects aswell. Here I can say that the UVbaking is done and now I'm putting all the little details on the hull iwth a heightmap to make it like a huge vessel.

Image

Here is the low poly ship with 8000 tris. It lacks only the sensors array, the 2 bridges sections and the engine. All the metal structure around the ship will be a texturewith alpha in it. Hopefully it will be lower than 15000 poly at the end.
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[MOD - WIP] Capital ships replacement project (again)

Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Love it :). let me know when you want to try this in-game and I will get it into the game for you!.

I just need from you.
  1. Ship Model (preferably in .X but I can accept most common formats like .obj
  2. The textures (Normal,Specular,Diffuse,ect as required and documented in the Customization Kit Documentation)
  3. Thruster Placement (I need to know roughly where you want the thrusters placed an image with some highlighted spots is good)
  4. Ship you wish to replace in-game.

    I should be able to get this into the game for you to test if you need help with that.


    [Edited on 3/28/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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