[EL] Evochron Community Overhaul Project

Custom mods, stories, and artwork based on the Evochron / Arvoch universe.
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SeeJay
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Post by SeeJay »

From post: 184596, Topic: tid=12336, author=Misunderstood Wookie wrote:Well they don't have to be star wars It was just what I had in mind when starting lol, I would be pretty well good on just some wep sounds that stick with the newtonian feel.
There are sound mods on my site (EM section)

There's also a few music tracks created by a friend of mine. If anything fits in with
your modding, feel free to use it.

[Edited on 2016-2-5 by SeeJay]
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http://evochron.junholt.se (Old)
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Marvin
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Post by Marvin »

Sounds from a copyrighted program can only be used if you own the program. Unless the program has been declared as freeware or otherwise made available for free by a reputable company. There might be exceptions, but I can't think of any off hand.
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Post by matchbox2022 »

Own the "rights" of a trademark or physically bought a copy of software?
Obviously I ask for obvious reasons. I love giving people sounds I think are fantastic but don't want to end up just having to take them down.

[Edited on 2-5-2016 by matchbox2022]
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Post by Marvin »

From post: 184606, Topic: tid=12336, author=matchbox2022 wrote:Own the "rights" of a trademark or physically bought a copy of software?
Either. Whoever creates a product owns the rights to it ... even if he never makes use of it himself. Unless he posts it to a public location and does not state any conditions for use. But you can create facsimiles of your own ... as long as you don't sell them or accept donations for their creation. Then all is good ... as long as you're prepared to defend yourself in a court of law ... which is why it's always best to follow the guidelines of any product you want to offer to others. Such as JSGME, for example ... which has an accompanying text file which reads like this:
Generic Mod Enabler v2.6.0 (8 August 2010)
Written by Jaesen Jones
Copyright (c) 2003-2010 JoneSoft

Web: http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/software/
Email: [email protected]

"Do you have a game that can be "modded"? As you know, the number of "must have" mods for any game can run into the tens, if not hundreds. The Generic Mod Enabler takes most of the hassle out of installing and uninstalling mods from your game. It has been tested with European Air War, Panzer Elite, Silent Hunter III/IV, Total War and various other games but should work with just about any moddable game."

LICENSE AGREEMENT
You should carefully read the following terms and conditions before using this software. Your use of this software indicates your acceptance of this license agreement.

LICENSE
- This License Agreement (the "Agreement") is a legal agreement between you, the end-user, and Jaesen Jones. By using this software or storing this program on a computer hard drive (or other media), you are agreeing to be bound by the terms of this Agreement.

- Home users and non-profit organisations may install this program and use it FREE for UNLIMITED time.

- Commercial users, profit, and government organisations may install this program and use it FREE for UNLIMITED time.

- This software may be distributed freely on online services, bulletin boards, or other electronic media as long as the files are distributed in their entirety.

- This software may not be distributed on CD-ROM, disk, or other physical media for a fee without the permission of Jaesen Jones.

- You may not alter this software in any way, including changing or removing any messages or windows.

- You may not decompile, disassemble or reverse-engineer this software.

COPYRIGHT
Generic Mod Enabler is Copyright 2003-2010, JoneSoft. You must treat the Software like any other copyrighted material.

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY
THIS SOFTWARE AND THE ACCOMPANYING FILES ARE SUPPLIED "AS IS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES AS TO PERFORMANCE OF MERCHANTABILITY OR ANY OTHER WARRANTIES WHETHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. NO WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE IS OFFERED.
If a product has no copyright information, sometimes it's best just to find another product.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

From post: 184598, Topic: tid=12336, author=SeeJay wrote:
From post: 184596, Topic: tid=12336, author=Misunderstood Wookie wrote:Well they don't have to be star wars It was just what I had in mind when starting lol, I would be pretty well good on just some wep sounds that stick with the newtonian feel.
There are sound mods on my site (EM section)

There's also a few music tracks created by a friend of mine. If anything fits in with
your modding, feel free to use it.
[Edited on 2016-2-5 by SeeJay]
Thanks SeeJay I will look into it,.

I am looking to see if people want to collab with me on this project there are lots of little mods around but I was thinking if this can turn into a big mod that includes a lot of other modders help it gives them a chance to update thier EM files at the same time and they can release it standalone along side with this, this community seems pretty tight nit usually a lot of the same people I see are on here daily so a community mod could be fun.
From post: 184606, Topic: tid=12336, author=matchbox2022 wrote:[Edited on 2-5-2016 by matchbox2022]
Yep, pretty much what Marvin has been saying, if its software or you want some sort of limited control over your creation you make an end-users licence file there are plenty of these templates available on the net, usually whenever I create something from scratch I put it under the GPL (General Public Licence) this covers much of what you would generally want, it keeps the software available for anyone to modify, distribute, use so long as it remains freeware and is not sold.

Also like others said, you can do what you want with freeware software except sell it for that you still need to make sufficient changes to the source code to for it to be deemed original works. Like ROTT (Rise of the Triad) and Duke3D (Duke Nukem 3D) these are now both freeware with the source available to compile only versions kicking around these-days are heavily modified source ports ;).

It goes without saying that I believe all the images required to mod this game come under the trademark for this game however the copyright extends to modification and distribution of modified material but the rights belong to the developer of the this game and you can't use the material provided in for your own game. However I think if we are going to discuss copyrights we should make a new thread and keep this one to discussions on the project :P

Oh I checked with Vice as well, he gave an updated list of numbers and which gun they were for, I modified the Legacy customization documentation to reflect this. He also said that the sounds were global so nope we do't have the ability to make separate sounds per ship so I will scrap the star-wars sounds and leave this for a HULL replacement mod of some kind in the future. Currently I am asking if you or anyone else wish to contribute to replacing the gun sounds effects. I got permission from you to use your warp effect and images and the dev of the compass mod kicking around on here I got permission for that too. As always anyone who grants me permission to use or modify thier work I will credit in my own and link back to the original.

So I updated OP to reflect this is a community mod :)
[Edited on 2/6/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]

[Edited on 2/6/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by nathanpinard »

Hi there,

I would like to help with sound design on this project as well. I have experience with sound design and also I'm a composer. If you are looking for pro-bono work, as long as the mod remains free I can help if needed.

As others have commented, Star Wars sounds are not a good idea for two reasons. 1. It's not legal 2. Doesn't quite fit this type of game.

Let me know if you are interested. I'm not sure how far you can edit the sound engine (if at all) but playing about 2 hours of the game has shown me the developer has added a few things. Hopefully there is a way to randomize given sounds, as the nebula "thunder" is the same one, all the time.
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Post by nathanpinard »

From post: 184602, Topic: tid=12336, author=Marvin wrote:Sounds from a copyrighted program can only be used if you own the program. Unless the program has been declared as freeware or otherwise made available for free by a reputable company. There might be exceptions, but I can't think of any off hand.
Ah, that isn't correct. You have to own a license to use the sound. Even if it's freeware. Sounds must be public domain or creative commons for that to work.

[Edited on 2-9-2016 by nathanpinard]
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Post by Marvin »

From post: 184845, Topic: tid=12336, author=nathanpinard wrote:Sounds must be public domain or creative commons for that to work.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by nathanpinard »

Just as a help. I tend to buy from soundsnap.com as their sounds are cheap and the search engine is decent. But freesound.org usually has all free creative commons sounds.

Oh something else I completely forgot about. It not in stone, but any sound that is common can't be copyrighted or trademarked. Such as rain. The problem is that there are cases where you can get some unique sounds of nature, such as a thunder clap with no rain, no wind, and no other sounds in the background.

As I said above I'd like to replace some...if not all the sounds for a complete overhaul. Just wish I could have all the initial defaults so I can listen to them file by file.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

From post: 184842, Topic: tid=12336, author=nathanpinard wrote:Hi there,
I would like to help with sound design on this project as well. I have experience with sound design and also I'm a composer. If you are looking for pro-bono work, as long as the mod remains free I can help if needed.
I sure do need help, send me an email at [email protected] and we can sort something out, if you like to work from cloud I have the ability to give you cloud upload urls so working on the project will be easier for both of us.

P.S I scrapped the star wars sound idea a few builds ago, This game is more suited to nice atmospheric music with the odd deep base sound moments.
I will of course credit your contribution.

I am currently making the install process a lot simpler and creating a way to use my cloud service as a distribution point for an installer to download builds and update existing builds seems a lot easier. This way I will only have to make full installs for major builds.

[Edited on 2/9/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Brian Paone »

I wish I were smart like you guys. :-( I'm really impressed with how y'all are getting this together.
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Post by Bodega »

From post: 184901, Topic: tid=12336, author=Brian Paone wrote:I wish I were smart like you guys. :-( I'm really impressed with how y'all are getting this together.


Google is the new university, just google tutorials for anything and everything. While some people are born with natural ability, some us just practice and practice. I'm not good at anything, I'm kinda just mediocre at a lot of things, but it keeps me busy. You can find an open source, free version of most tools, Gimp or Paint.Net instead of photoshop (Though a subscription to Photoshop can be had for like $10/month I think if you find it on sale). Blender.org = 3D Modeling and Rendering, plus a ton of other free tools out there. Those can replace 3DS Max or Maya (or try their demos and if you have money buy a copy).
There are a lot of audio editing tools out there, Audacity comes to mind for free tools. I use a couple pay ones because I'm lucky I have a few licenses for those. Just google it and start playing around with the software. That's how I learned Photoshop, 3DSMax, FLStudio, Ableton and now Blender. Literally years and years of just chillin in my bedroom and playing with stuff until it looked cool. (Yeah, I had girlfriends too in those days, but my PC will always be my #1 love...don't judge me).


I hope that statement wasn't sarcastic.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

If you guys are interested here is URL for the Dev branch as I moved everything to cloud in preparation for the release of 0.9a which uses a self updating installer I'll still be packageing full installers just the msi installer can check for updates prior to install :).

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0Bz4g ... puU00/edit

So the Dev version changes frequently so don't ask me how to install it anyway, I'm sure who wants early builds will know where it all goes.


But I'll think y'all will appreciate the the new warp textures haha. I changed the cm flares too. The Dev branch is also rocking the updated shader preset.

I'll share progress on the installer at a later date,.

Got some more good news for you all too, a writer has offered to lend his skills to help expand the quest line.

So my road map for quests is a thirty mission long chain continuing the main story with alternative endings.

And a five mission long quest beginning a new story :D

[Edited on 2/10/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]
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Post by Marvin »

From post: 184963, Topic: tid=12336, author=Misunderstood Wookie wrote:Got some more good news for you all too, a writer has offered to lend his skills to help expand the quest line.

So my road map for quests is a thirty mission long chain continuing the main story with alternative endings.

And a five mission long quest beginning a new story :D
:cool: Good luck with beta testing ... especially those alternate endings.
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Post by Bodega »

The quest engine is awesome. I've been making a quest too, custom models, sounds and all. I asked Vice what do we do about naming the quest files because they have to be numbered, how we do we keep from stepping on eachothers toes with the numbers. He said we could ask the user to rename the quest file manually. So if you release a quest and they have no other quests installed, they could name it quest6.txt, and then if they download mine, they'd name it quest7.txt. Unless you can make an installer that uses logic to read the dir listing and puts the quest # as the one after the last one found.
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Post by Marvin »

Well, currently there are only four quests, numbered 0 thru 3. Quests 2 and 3 use the objects labeled quest4- ... so, until the number of quests become unwieldy, you could number your quests starting with quest 4 ... which would show up on the in-game list as Quest 5. Any objects would carry the label of quest5- ... and, if you use the same objects for more than one quest, you need not re-name them. (In fact, you could give them any name you like, so long as that name is reflected in the quest script.)
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Post by matchbox2022 »

How does one learn how to make quests?
Is it a certain script language or something?
I'm out of my league there, I only ever use gmax and audacity.
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Post by Janus »

From what I've seen, making quests is for those who have the mind of a programmer.
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Post by Bodega »

Matchbox: It's really easy, there is a sample quest in the game's directory. It's literally just following a template. Feel free to ask me any questions you have. I've played with it a lot and also asked Vice a few things, so I can pass on anything he's taught me. The sample file has everything you need.

Marvin, you're right, I still had the 2 test quests that were removed in the last update in my steam directory. I was thinking about the future, if and when there are a few quests getting released. I love that Vice had the forethought to really make the framework modular. I hope that you guys will try to write something and put it out there.

The workflow I'm trying and I don't know how efficient it is, because I've never done this, is:
  • Draft up a story. Doesn't have to be too detailed, but bullet the main points
  • Storyboard it with a flow chart that has the decision branches mapped out,
  • Write each actual text output the player will see and follow the previous steps map
  • Create any models and sounds I want to incorporate
  • ???
  • Profit? (nah and then test and let people play it)
Then I'll make another, hopefully a lot of other people make some so the people that avoid PvP and prefer PvE have lots to do.

I don't know, or it'll be horrible and I'll never do it again.
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Post by Marvin »

:cool: I doubt it will be horrible, especially if you're good with modeling. Keep in mind that you can place your new models and sound files into a folder to be tucked away inside the main game folder (or anywhere, actually). All you need to do then, when scripting the quest, is to include the subdirectory location on the object line.
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Post by Bodega »

Ah excellent, I wasn't sure if I could do that, thanks Marvin.
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Post by Marvin »

Originally, the second two quests were going to be set up that way. The "subdirectory" method was tested and worked just fine.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

What's with this sub directory.. Are you saying you can use alternative textures in the quest or model replacement in the quest by telling the quest the subdirectory to use files from?
So during that quest a ship model will be replaced that doesn't sound like it would work well in mp or if other of the same ship type are around.

Look I'll probably just just make my quest files using the installer script as suggested it will find the last number and rename the mine.

That will take some time though as I'm horrible with that stuff. Or I could be smart and give it some unique 3 digit number I highly doubt that's going to be overwritten. I'm not even sure you have to name them questx because the quest script can call another file so I'll try tacking our expansion story quest file onto the end of the games or in original file that had the final quest.

It's all very tedious I still gotta figure out how to write this yet and make it believable.

Maybe vice has some ideas on how to implement this quest as I'll probably use numbers 100 - 102 just to avoid issues.
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Post by Marvin »

The quests aren't compiled (as of yet) so you can open them with Notepad. Either of the second two quests should give you a good idea as to how a quest needs to be scripted. For example, each quest needs a unique ID number. Quest 3 starts out like this:
QuestIDNum=2
QuestTitle=The Transporter - ALC
Objects are scripted like this example from the same quest:
QuestEvent=4
QuestObjct=quest4-transport2.x
QuestSpace=0
QuestData1=0
QuestData2=0
QuestData3=0
QuestData4=quest4-transport2.png
QuestData5=quest4-transport-normal.png
QuestData6=quest4-transport-specular.png
QuestData7=quest4-transport2-emissive.png
QuestData8=1500
QuestData9=90
The object listed above is tagged "quest4-transport2.x" and the textures follow in data lines 4 thru 7. If the object and textues were tucked away in a subfolder (to keep things neat), it might look like this:
QuestEvent=4
QuestObjct=objects\\quest4-transport2.x
QuestSpace=0
QuestData1=0
QuestData2=0
QuestData3=0
QuestData4=objects\\quest4-transport2.png
QuestData5=objects\\quest4-transport-normal.png
QuestData6=objects\\quest4-transport-specular.png
QuestData7=objects\\quest4-transport2-emissive.png
QuestData8=1500
QuestData9=90
Keep in mind that any scripted object will only exist as long as the player remains in the scripted sector. As soon as he jumps to another sector, the object disappears. Ergo, if you insert a few ship mods and require the player to destroy them (assuming it's possible to destroy spawned mods), he must destroy them prior to leaving the sector ... else, he fails that part of the quest (if that's the way you've scripted it). Default objects aren't affected by player movement.
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Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Thanks Marvin I did peek at the sample quest seems easy enough and if its true if I can produce special effects and textures well this will be fun.

However I can't promise when the quests will be delivered as we still need to write them and plan them out. What I do want though is if any modelers wish to partake drop a comment or email me directly at [email protected]
This is s large project and doing myself is a slow process, I can get the ships into game np just need people who can create better than me to lend a hand if they have nothing better do that is.
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