Vonary-I in Legacy

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Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:40 pm

I am not very skilled combat pilot. I have not been playing the game too long to be experienced in dogfighting but at the same time I never considered the Vonary to be a real threat as soon as I caught the tactics "fly around and shoot them down one by one" from the book of tips and hints. I have been fighting in all WZ from Sierra to Arvoch and never bothered of how many Vonaries I was against: 4, 5 or 7. But all this glorious battles were in old good Evochron Mercenary and older titles. Everything changed in Legacy. I can battle against Vonary-F (fighter?) and Vonary-B (bomber?), but Vonary-I (interceptor?) is my personal nightmare. One (!!!) Vonary-I can easily withstand 3 allied chimeras, two Vonary-I quickly decimate the entire fleet of NPC, no matter how large it is. Three Vonary-I... I wonder why the humanity still exists. It has shields much stronger than chimera. I tried to penetrate it from very close distance with my fusion beam and it usually takes me 3 full energy capacitors of chimera (+5w/-5s). It is much faster and agile than Nighthawk. Vonary-I always chooses the advantageous position and distance using its supremacy in speed and manoeuvrability. It can easily shake off the pursuer au contraire catch up any human ship. In EM I considered my crafted fusion particle as the main weapon and missiles as auxiliary. Now I can rely only on my starfire missiles but often they can do nothing. Vonary-I simply outrun them or launches long sequence of ecm. Don't get me wrong: I am not complaining or pleading to nerf Vonary, no. All I am asking is how veteran players survive encounters with 2, 3 or more of these bl__dy d_mn Vonary-I. I am completely frustrated. For now I rescue escape pods from battleships or find lost items. D_mn, what a shame for combat pilot! Thank you.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Marvin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:22 pm

IM (Independent Merchants) still fly in multiplayer as a group. That way, we can usually defeat even the most persistent Vonari attack.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:14 pm

As you noted, previous games had less challenging Vonari opponents. To help address the 'too easy' and 'needs more challenge' comments that would surface, they were given some significant changes to increase the level of risk and difficulty.

In the game's lore, the Vonari physiology and technology is allowed to provide them with some advantages. The physics of Vonari ships are allowed to far exceed any human ship, generally several times more maneuverable. And the capabilities are scaled between the ships. So the fighter is the fastest and most maneuverable, but also the easiest to destroy. The bomber is the heaviest and slowest, but has much more armor and requires a lot more weapon impacts to destroy. The interceptor is a blend of the two, giving it a pretty even mix of agility and armor.

If a battle you find yourself in involves interceptors, then you'll generally want to prioritize those in your initial attack. As you've found, they are very effective and generally one of the most challenging combat opponents in the game. Save your missiles (Starfires or not) and focus on drift arc attacks far more. Only use missiles in more of a head on approach when they are flying at you directly to help close the timing gap and leave less chance for them to use countermeasures or escape. Otherwise, focus your attack with beam cannons until you knock an array out, then switch to particle cannons to bring down there hull. Don't be discouraged if it takes 3 or 4 passes to successfully inflict enough damage to destroy them, it's worth the added time to reduce your exposure to their return fire. Just be careful not to get caught in between two or more (interceptors or any other type) and keep your AVL above 1200-1500 most of the time, but especially once you reach their weapon range. Then make sure to maintain your drift and/or alter your course at sufficient range to try and throw off their aiming lock and at enough range to evade any incoming gunfire from them.

I've actually been working on some training/tutorial videos, one of which involves combat and covers some techniques that work well against Vonari. In some instances, you can simply exaggerate the concepts to adapt to ships that are faster, more maneuverable, and/or require more weapon hits such as the Vonari interceptor. I hope to post the videos sometime this month and you may find the tactics/options reviewed in the combat video to also be helpful.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:15 pm

Vice wrote: If a battle you find yourself in involves interceptors, then you'll generally want to prioritize those in your initial attack. As you've found, they are very effective and generally one of the most challenging combat opponents in the game. Save your missiles (Starfires or not) and focus on drift arc attacks far more. Only use missiles in more of a head on approach when they are flying at you directly to help close the timing gap and leave less chance for them to use countermeasures or escape. Otherwise, focus your attack with beam cannons until you knock an array out, then switch to particle cannons to bring down there hull. Don't be discouraged if it takes 3 or 4 passes to successfully inflict enough damage to destroy them, it's worth the added time to reduce your exposure to their return fire. Just be careful not to get caught in between two or more (interceptors or any other type) and keep your AVL above 1200-1500 most of the time, but especially once you reach their weapon range. Then make sure to maintain your drift and/or alter your course at sufficient range to try and throw off their aiming lock and at enough range to evade any incoming gunfire from them.


Thank you Vice for detailed explanation. I usually stick to the tactics you have described above and it works well against V-F and V-B, but against V-I it looks like I lack firepower. I installed modules to boost my energy capacity and recharging rate but capacitors still discharge quickly even if I fire beam and cannon separatly (I usually fly in Chimera). Dogfighting in Nighthawk is more comfortable but it is very fragile and lack firepower. Also I have noticed that often the Vonary using their supremacy increase speed up to 3000-3500 and encircle me when I try to drift pass them. Somehow after 1,5 years of fighting in AWZ I achieved ADM rank (mostly in battles with one V-I in enemy task forces) and order npc ships to concentrate fire on V-I. Sometimes it even works. Is it possible to call for reinforcements when NPC ships are destroyed and I am the only who stands against the enemy?
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:38 am

I actually prefer the Nighthawk when engaging Vonari interceptors, but it does take some practice to avoid incoming gunfire from them long enough to inflict damage their way. However, with the Nighthawk, it's easier for me to set up an increasing drift arc moving slightly away from them enough to maintain an ideal distance for my particle cannon. The interceptor may indeed increase speed up to 3K or more if your range starts to reach far enough away, but with the correct reverse drift arc, it will actually leave them at a disadvantage as you'll be able to contact them more with your guns than they will with their guns. You may just need to bump up your speed more to maintain that drift and distance correctly. The only problem with this approach that you may run into is that if you inflict enough damage on them and you fly backwards fast enough, they may turn away to prevent you from finishing them off. And if they do that, you'll generally have to move in to set up another pass, which will give them time to recharge their shields and perhaps even repair a little. But if you are fast at it, they won't have much time to do so and you can run another attack pass to finish them off.

For your flight style, you may want to look into something with less energy consumption and a faster firing rate. Even if you do less damage per shot, you may be able to sustain weapon fire enough to do more damage long term. But that will depend on what kind of arcs, speeds, and range factors are applying for your flight style. However, it might be worth just loading up a stock Maxim-R for a few battles to see if that makes a difference for you in terms of survival and attack success. If that proves effective for you, then maybe tune and tweak a custom weapon to provide a similar firing rate and energy consumption rate.

You can't call in reinforcements after your initial group is destroyed. However, you can pull back a bit and wait a while, flying large circles around the enemy group of ships just enough to stay in radar range, but not close enough to risk getting hit with weapon fire. Do that for a while and some friendly reinforcements may arrive over the next few minutes to help out. As soon as one or more arrives, be sure to fly in to help them while they distract the enemy ships to best utilize the opportunity.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Marvin » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:45 am

Vice wrote:...with the correct reverse drift arc, it will actually leave them at a disadvantage as you'll be able to contact them more with your guns than they will with their guns. You may just need to bump up your speed more to maintain that drift and distance correctly. The only problem with this approach that you may run into is that if you inflict enough damage on them and you fly backwards fast enough, they may turn away to prevent you from finishing them off.

Whenever I find myself outnumbered, I usually use this tactic. In one of two ways. One, I look for the "soft spot" ... the percentage of damage at which a Vonari ship will turn away. Before that point, I chip away at its shields and hull in short bursts. Then, as I reach the soft spot, I pause long enough to fully recharge energy and then lay it on in one, long blast. Two, I do enough major damage for each ship to turn away, one at a time. Then, once I have only one remaining Vonari in pursuit, I attack, destroy, and head back ... picking off the damaged stragglers one by one.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:30 am

Thank you for your invaluable pieces of advice, Vice and Marvin. One more question. Does the higher rank attract more enemy? Maybe I am mistaken, but I have noticed that when I had captain rank and lower, enemy ships hadn't pursued me in systems with high level of control (>40%, not marked as disputed).
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:18 am

Not in terms of Vonari space, enemy threat levels are pretty fixed in war zones. Your rank in civilian space can impact what contracts are offered to you, which include more challenging ones your rank indicates you are more capable of completing, including ones with higher enemy numbers.

But in either case, a higher rank won't 'attract' more enemy ships during an active contract. That will have more to do with location, conditions, and some random factors. Generally speaking, the longer you take to complete some objectives, the better the chance enemy reinforcements will arrive.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:23 pm

You were absolutely right, Vice. I switched to Nighthawk and was able to withstand against 2 V-I, 1 V-B, 1 V-F. They quickly destroyed helpless NPC ships without casualties but were not able to approach me and lock their MDTS. The sense of safety piloting Chimera was only an illusion. Speed and agility are better defenses. It is fun to blow civilian frames in Chimera, not the real warships, very disapointing with it. If only Nighthawk had the same energy capacity as Chimera it would have been the ship of dream. ::) Maybe you will invent some kind of powerful reactor to install as primary equipment? ;) Solar Recharger is a great device but its influence is noticeable only near stars. BTW, Vice, if you are going to post some tutorial videos, please show how you perform military contract in difficult WZ such as Sirius WZ or Cerulean WZ with 7 Vonary ships. It would be very helpful to see how the creator of Evoverse deals with the monsters he thought out. :)
Last edited by YaroslavUSSR on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:50 pm

Glad that proved successful for you as well. The Chimera does have the advantage of higher energy reserves and armor, but it lacks agility and speed that are helpful when up against Vonari. Different ships and weapons can indeed actually prove more effective in certain scenarios than others.

With a ship like the Nighthawk in challenging areas like war zones, it's important to include both a cannon relay and a cannon heatsink as part of your ship's equipment, then keep energy set to +5W when attacking, only switching to +5S when turning away to recharge and only long enough to restore a shield array if one is low. And this can be where my other recommendation might be helpful. Using a weapon with lower energy consumption and a faster firing right might be a better fit for your flight style and the energy reserves of the Nighthawk. Although you may still prefer a higher powered weapon. A lot depends on how long you can effectively keep a target in range to fire particle weapons at it.

Also, if you can take out one or two Vonari spacecraft on the first pass, you can give your wingmen a better chance of surviving longer through the battle. Loading a few heavy missiles or an Excalibur can help with this objective. And the goal is to reduce hostile firepower more than trying to take out a particular class of ship. So targeting fighters on a first pass can provide the best chance of initially destroying one or two. I sometimes also try to distract a few enemy ships at a time early on so the wingmen have a chance to launch missiles and/or regroup to focus in on one ship without being attacked by most or all of the hostile ships at the same time. This can be challenging to accomplish though and takes some practice since it requires precise flight paths to maintain the correct range and timing.

Overall though, it sounds like you're doing well working out some of your own tactics for success.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:34 pm

Vice wrote:Glad that proved successful for you as well. The Chimera does have the advantage of higher energy reserves and armor, but it lacks agility and speed that are helpful when up against Vonari. Different ships and weapons can indeed actually prove more effective in certain scenarios than others.

With a ship like the Nighthawk in challenging areas like war zones, it's important to include both a cannon relay and a cannon heatsink as part of your ship's equipment, then keep energy set to +5W when attacking, only switching to +5S when turning away to recharge and only long enough to restore a shield array if one is low. And this can be where my other recommendation might be helpful. Using a weapon with lower energy consumption and a faster firing right might be a better fit for your flight style and the energy reserves of the Nighthawk. Although you may still prefer a higher powered weapon. A lot depends on how long you can effectively keep a target in range to fire particle weapons at it.

Also, if you can take out one or two Vonari spacecraft on the first pass, you can give your wingmen a better chance of surviving longer through the battle. Loading a few heavy missiles or an Excalibur can help with this objective. And the goal is to reduce hostile firepower more than trying to take out a particular class of ship. So targeting fighters on a first pass can provide the best chance of initially destroying one or two. I sometimes also try to distract a few enemy ships at a time early on so the wingmen have a chance to launch missiles and/or regroup to focus in on one ship without being attacked by most or all of the hostile ships at the same time. This can be challenging to accomplish though and takes some practice since it requires precise flight paths to maintain the correct range and timing.

Overall though, it sounds like you're doing well working out some of your own tactics for success.


In EM Chimera was an ultimate ship. Maybe she was not as good in PvP (never tried) but against AI definitely was. Also ships Avenger->Chimera were equipped with large fuel tanks of 3000 units so I was able to explore Vonarion and Andromeda. Too pity that in Legacy fuel tank was reduced. :( Chimera also had the largest energy reserve and the fastest rate of energy recharge. I used fusion particle (82y/890r/16c) as a prime weapon and this weapon never depleted energy i.e.I was able to shoot infinitely without recharging. Metal Projectile is the other great craftable weapon, but I think it is better to hold off the enemy at maximum distance. Interestingly, what are the Vonaries' weapons and ships specifications? Is this information top secret? :)
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:14 pm

As part of an overall effort to rebalance the various ship designs and capabilities, civilian ships were given several significant changes in areas of resources and configuration options. So military ships were emphasized in the direction of more short range combat focused spacecraft (including some improvements) while civilian designs were expanded in some areas while also given new options that were not previously available. And military ships have also been given the ability to share in some of the configuration/design options while still retaining their short range combat focus.

You may recall some of the discussions/debates over the years regarding certain ships becoming 'all powerful' in a sense so that everyone would just rush to acquire only one or two ship types, leaving the others as unused. As you discovered with the Nighthawk vs the Chimera, even individual frame types within the realm of military ships have been given some unique advantages and options. The same is of course also true for civilian spacecraft vs military spacecraft as a whole. If you want to travel long distances and explore deep space, the best and most practical option is now generally some form of civilian spacecraft design... rather than flying a Chimera around all the time to do everything.

It's even more important and beneficial now to keep a few ship designs around for different roles you might want to play in the game at different times. And again, this is done to encourage multi-purpose roles and multiple ship utilization across a wider range of frame types rather than just one 'super ship' no one bothers to change once acquired. For anyone interested, details on such changes/additions and the reasons behind them are available on the development page ( http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegac ... opment.htm ).

Vonary technology is kept in the 'unknown' category overall in the game's lore. But in general, they use one of the most powerful cannon levels in the game (but not the most powerful) and most powerful level of missile. Agility is where the Vonari are given a significant advantage overall (as mentioned above), generally well above the specifications of human spacecraft.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Marvin » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:26 am

To test this out, I finally changed from a civilian ship (Centurion) to a military ship (Avenger) for combat in the Sierra WZ. I had to store most of my gear at the station in order to make the trade. But, yeah, combat in a military ship is much more to your advantage when compared to a civilian ship. Turning rate and acceleration are greatly improved. But, outside of combat, I'll stick with my civilian ship with its crew and expanded cargo space and equipment slots.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:13 pm

That makes sense. But how about civilian frames? Let me compare once again EM and EL.

E.Mercenary:

Renegade: capacity 19, assembly 475, agility 35, armor 225
Legacy: capacity 20, assembly 525, agility 50, armor 220

Centurion: capacity 21, assembly 500, agility 30, armor 250.
Mammoth: capacity 21, assembly 550, agility 45, armor 240

Leviathan: capacity 22, assembly 550, agility 25, armor 300
Starmaster: capacity 22, assembly 550, agility 40, armor 280

E.Legacy:

Renegade: capacity 34, assembly 475, agility 40, armor 225
Paladin: capacity 34, assembly 500, agility 40, armor 220

Centurion: capacity 44, assembly 500, agility 32, armor 250.
Titan: capacity 44, assembly 500, agility 32, armor 240

Leviathan: capacity 48, assembly 500, agility 25, armor 300
Starmaster: capacity 48, assembly 500, agility 25, armor 280

In EM ALC ships are more armored but significally less agile while FDN ships are more agile and less armored. In EL three last ship classes are almost identical to each other. Why should I prefer Starmaster over Leviathan or Centurion over Titan in terms of new balance? The differences are almost imperceptible.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Vice » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:46 pm

Differences between Alliance and Federation frame type at the same tier level are indeed minimal in the new game, so you can fly either and effectively have the same benefits flying the same frame tier from the faction you are linked to. The differences now are related more to different frame tiers for types rather than different faction origins for types.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Marvin » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:04 pm

YaroslavUSSR wrote:Why should I prefer ... Centurion over Titan in terms of new balance?

8) The Centurion looks better.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby YaroslavUSSR » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:57 pm

Marvin wrote: 8) The Centurion looks better.

I think it depend on how you customize other ship parts i.e. their positions and scales.
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Re: Vonary-I in Legacy

Postby Marvin » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:44 pm

True. But, as the old saying goes: You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. ::)
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